Lysistrata--Another type?
With the character of Lysistrata, we have yet another woman, who, while she does certainly step outside the accepted norms of Greek women's behavior, uses another stereotypical feminine behavior to make her point. What is the final effect of the action of the play? Why does Lysistrata use "woman as sexual manipulator" to propose an end to the war? Does it make the men see women any differently? Based on this play (not on his life), what do you think Aristophanes thinks about women? I think it is interesting that he was highly critical of the war himself and makes some very salient points about the futility and irrationality of war though Lysistrata--but who hears them?
I read with great interest the discussion this week. Your comments are insightful and thought provoking. Make sure you take the time to go back and read the entire discussion even after you have posted your comments. That is just about my favorite thing to do!
I read with great interest the discussion this week. Your comments are insightful and thought provoking. Make sure you take the time to go back and read the entire discussion even after you have posted your comments. That is just about my favorite thing to do!
posted by Dr. Battles at 9:48 AM
13 Comments:
Greek men and women were very sexual individuals. On that bases, Aristophanes uses that knowledge and gives it to his characters. Since women have the control on sex, even today, it only makes sense to apply it to this story. It goes with the theory that if a women wants something, she will do whatever necessary to botain it. since the women wanted their husbands home from the war, their only weapon to use war sex. Their priviledges were meager, so to make their point within the scope of their accepted responsibilities, it only makes sense.
Did it make the men see the women differently. I don't think so. The only thing the men saw was that they needed to end the war if they wanted their needs to be met.
I think Aristophanes think of women as sex object but with a mind that is smarter then it is given credit for. He might think that women are capable of manipulating a situation to serve a given purpose. Since he doesn't seem in agreement with the war itself, what better way of stopping it then using a women that has a great mind and body. both things that are hard to ignore for most men.
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One thing I think we need to keep in mind about Lysistrata is that she is a character in a parody, so of course her actions will lend towards an extreme. Though Greek society was open about the subject of sex, I don’t think women, or men for that matter, would have acted like Aristophanes characters.
In the context of the play, Lysistrata is a great strategist in that she uses “women’s wiles”, a tried and true method of gaining male attention, in order to snare her audience. While she has valid reasons for stopping the war, she still relies heavily on sexuality in the end to gain her objectives. She openly flaunts a female body, whether hers or someone else’s depends on the translation, as a means of getting the men to end the war, so they can end their sexual frustration as well.
As Greek women were supposed to obey their guardians (husbands or fathers respectively) in all things, I don’t see the play being at all accurate of the time. And the men give in too quickly and easily.
Aristophanes seems to generalize both men and women in Lysistrata, and neither sex appears in a very positive light. Women are manipulators, who will do anything to get what they want. But what’s worse, Aristophanes seems to say that women are simply sex objects, and the women in the play agree with that opinion. They are all perfectly content to tease and torment their husbands with their bodies as a way to get what they want. And the men: Aristophanes implies men are ruled by their sexual organs. Duty, valor, honor, all the things normally given for reasons for a war are put aside because they want sexual gratification.
The end result of the play was that the women accomplished what they set out to, ending the war. I think the reason why the women used sex to manipulate the men was because they did not have another bargaining chip. There is nothing that can replace the female body and the women did have anything else they could use. Let's face it, men are capable of doing everything women can do except taking on the role of what the female anatomy can do.
I do not think the men felt any differently about their women. Even today with all of our progress, there are still men who believe that women should be home, barefoot and pregnant. There are also countries where women must cover their heads, walk behind the men on the sidewalk and never speak in public.
I do not think that Aristophanes felt strongly about women one way or another. I do not think that he would move them up the social scale either. He was very antagonistic about anybody he could get a rise out of or write about and it was just the women's turn in Lysistrata.
When I think about the play it doesn't seem to me that Aristophanes was intentionaly making a strong point about women with Lysistrata; he was making the point with the war and mainly parodying that. Thus, the issue with women being just sexual objects crept its way in through people analyzing the play, but I think we should also focus on how men are portrayed as well and that Aristophnes was making the point about men and women in general not being able to function with out sex.
At the same time, I do think that the play makes women look like sexual objects. When the women recite the oath as to everything that they are not going to do including specific positions, it's like the women are sterotyping themselves. But, with the men waking around with evidence of sexual absense and willing to stop the war just so they can have sex doesn't make them look like capable people with a purpose outside of domestic and marital relations.
Cicely,
I agree with some of the points that you made including how Aristophanes made women in this play out to be critical thinkers. Just because the one tool they could use against them made them look like an object in some people's eye's doesn't necessarily mean what they were doing wasn't working in their favor. It didn't show men in the best light either.
Also, the point about how the war ended was good; the play showed men wanting to end the war so they could have sex- not because war kills people, devastates communities and their economy.
Cicely, I agree that Aristophanes portrays the men as weak sexual individuals, but the women in the play are as well. If you recall, the women are the ones who first start trying to desert the Acropolis because they want sex. The men do not appear on stage until later, complaining about their problems. I think that Aristophanes is trying to say that everyone is ruled by sexual urges, not only the men. Ironically, this means that men and women are equals in this situation.
Whereas the other Greek playwrights we have studied equate sexuality, especially women’s sexuality, with evil, Aristophanes uses sex as a positive, something that brings about peace.
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The final effect of the play was that the women achieved what they wanted which was their husbands home from the war and for it to stop. The sexual manipulator was really all the women had to use against the men. Although there were behind the scene things going on the no sex only added to men’s frustrations. I honestly believe this was the edge the women had on the men and therefore they had to take what they could. Do the men see the women differently? NOPE. They are still seen as objects. Even when Peace comes out they just objectify her and most of them do not see Lysistrata for the brains behind the idea. The men can't stop talking about Peace’s body. I think that Aristophanes thought that women were more than just a body that they were just as smart as men and maybe even smarter. They are not pushovers but will do whatever they need to accomplish what they are wanting. In this play not only does he allow them to put an end to an ongoing pointless war but he evens gives Lysistrata the chance to be heard and explain to the men how she thought the city could be ran better. I think he knew how women were not treated equal and thought that they should be based on this play. Honestly I think one man heard the points on the war that Lysistrata made, the women might have but I think they already knew them. I don't think most of the men hear them.
Shelley i agree mostly with what you have said but i don't think that aristophanes sees women as sex objects but, that he knows how manipulative they can be with their body. I do agree that the women will do whatever they need to get the war to end and since their priviledges were meager all they really had to use at their advantage was sex.
Julie,
I agree with you about the end result being ending the war. Women had no power, so using sex was the only way to get the attention of the men. And obviously that what they did.
The feamle body is a wonderful thing and no matter how much control men thought they had over
the women, we will always have the upper hand.
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