Maggie and Hester
Both Maggie and Hester are "ruined" women. That is a curious term, when you think about it. Ruined for what? for who? Is ruined redeemable?
One thing we discussed briefly was that Maggie's only chance for redemption was death. Do you agree with that, and do you think Hester is redeemed? What brings about her redemption, if you think that is true. What might complicate the question is that since Hester never repents, is she even in need of redemption?
Another thing I want you to think about is while it's clear that Hawthorne and Crane are presenting one view of woman in each of their novels, do you think that narrative is condemning the woman or the treatment of her? This is something you will see on the exam for all the works we have studied. You don't need to address any but Maggie and Hester here, but think about it.
One thing we discussed briefly was that Maggie's only chance for redemption was death. Do you agree with that, and do you think Hester is redeemed? What brings about her redemption, if you think that is true. What might complicate the question is that since Hester never repents, is she even in need of redemption?
Another thing I want you to think about is while it's clear that Hawthorne and Crane are presenting one view of woman in each of their novels, do you think that narrative is condemning the woman or the treatment of her? This is something you will see on the exam for all the works we have studied. You don't need to address any but Maggie and Hester here, but think about it.
posted by Dr. Battles at 4:54 PM
6 Comments:
When the term "ruined" is used, I think it means that both women are no longer eligible for serious suitors and eventually marry. If Hester and Maggie were able to relocate to another city, then I believe they would no longer be ruined, since the people of the new city would not know of these women's past.
Unfortunately for Maggie, there wasn't any place for her to go after being thrown out of her parents home and shunned by Pete. So for her the only way out was death.
Hester on the other hand does not have a need for redemption. The people of her town, by allowing her to sew for them, is her redemption.
For both Hawthorne and Crane, I think that the narrative is condemning both the women and the treatment against them. Both women go against what society deemed proper behavior. But the treatment of the women afterward was cruel and gives the reader sympathy towards each.
Maggie and Hester are ruined in the sense that they can no longer function properly in society. A woman’s role was to get married and have a family, but once a woman loses her virginity, no other man wants her for a wife. I think part of it stems from the man’s fear that he won’t be able to keep his wife faithful so how can he know that the children she bears belong to him?
We live in a time where divorce and mixed families are common, so that isn’t as big a problem now, but back then, men prided themselves on being able to carry on the family name and honor through their children. They didn’t want to claim a child that wasn’t theirs.
I don’t think Maggie’s only option was death because we already saw that she was able to work in the collar and cuff factory so her only option wasn’t prostitution. She could have lived on her own in a different part of the city from her family and taken a job at a factory. It would have been a respectable way to live. I’m not saying she would have been ecstatically happy or anything, but it would not have been prostitution or suicide.
I don’t really know if this option would redeem her in the eyes of her family, but then again, I don’t know that their opinions really count all that much in the great scheme of things. Look at all the horrible things her mother did and yet she felt she was Maggie’s moral superior because Maggie had sex with a man she loved.
I don’t think Hester is really ever “redeemed” by society because, while they seem to accept her and the things she does for the community, she is still an outcast and they never let her forget why she wears the scarlet letter. Then again, Hester doesn’t feel she’s done anything wrong so I don’t know if she wants to be redeemed.
I think both Hawthorne and Crane are condemning the treatment of Hester and Maggie respectively because the women are clearly the heroines of the novels. Both authors focus on the hypocrisy of the society that condemns these women for following their hearts.
I think that yes they were ruined in the terms of their society because they would not be able to marry decent men because of the "sin" they had committed. I think that in their time they could never ever really be redeemed or at least in the eyes of their society and i don't really think that Hester wanted to be redeemed although she and Maggie are both in need of it. I don't see Maggie as really having any other options than death. She was poor and been rejected by her family what else was she suppose to do? I think that the narrative does not agree with what either woman did nor do they agree with the way they were treated by their society after they had committed their "sin".
Cicely, why do you think Maggie didn’t have the opportunity for redemption. This question can apply to both Shelley and Monnica as well because they both imply the same idea, but Cicely is the one who outright states it.
The old woman who lived in the building with Maggie’s family offered to let Maggie stay with her, but Maggie chose not to. That means, she was given a different option besides prostitution; she just didn’t accept it. Wouldn’t staying with the old woman offer her some kind of redemption? We also know Maggie had other skills because she worked in the collar and cuff factory before meeting Pete. Conceivably, she could have found another job at a factory and worked to raise enough money to live on her own. She would not have had to turn to prostitution and eventually suicide. She chose to ignore that avenue.
I don't believe that Maggie and Hester are "ruined" women. For Maggie, committing suicide is not the only choice she has; she is a poor and uneducated girl from the slums of New York. It it some ways wouldn't matter what she did because she could never bring herself out of that lifestyle and get a great job or marry into a good family. Committing suicide because she couldn't go back home in my mind is crazy because she had a means to money and could find somewhere to stay. As far as killing herself from the pain of her family turning on her doesn't seem appropriate either considering that they were awful to her.
I don't feel that Hester is "ruined" either. She and Dimmsdale were adults who made a conscious decision about their personal lives, even if the townspeople disagreed with it; it was none of their business and Hester was aware of all of that. I beleive she led her life content to how she wanted to live it in most ways and was a good person and helped people. I don't think she repents at all because she doesn't think what she did was a crime.
Hawthorne was on Hester's side and creates her as an interesting and intelligent person while making a point on the other hand about the Puritans and how they would have delt with that situation back then. I don't really believe that Crane is creating a view about women with Maggie but had compassion for her and felt sorry for her.
I don't think that Maggie's only chance for redemption was death. I think she had a choice and she chose to end it all. Although Hester did not repent publicly, she may have repented in private. I don't think she is in need of redemption because she doesn't owe society anything. She stands firm in who she is and does not apologize for her actions. I think if she had made a habit of committing adultery, then maybe she should have sought redemption. But, she loved Dimmesdale, she ended the (physcal) affair and raised her daughter - end of story. She did what she was supposed to do by her own standards.
I'm not sure about the treatment of the women in these two novels. I think that each of these authors have their own ideas about the status of women. Hester was strong and Maggie was weak and I'm not sure how the narrative feels about the treatment of each woman. The fact that the authors chose to end to stories the way they did may have something to say about it.
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