Nora and Helene
One of the critical articles I gave you said that Ibsen himself saw Helene Alving as a successor to Nora, but while Nora leaves, she stays. Do you see any affinity or similarity between the two women? What about between Torvald Helmer and Pastor Manders? What makes the women and the men different from each other? You need to consider things such as social class, of course, and mid-19th century morality. How did each woman, and man, view marriage and duty, and how do they all reconcile those ideas in the light of the actions of the plots of the plays?
If you need a few more questions, I think I can come up with them!!
If you need a few more questions, I think I can come up with them!!
posted by Dr. Battles at 10:06 AM
4 Comments:
Both Nora and Helene lie in order to protect someone they love: Nora’s husband and Helene’s son. Ironically, these two women are the first ones we have read about where their “fall” is not related to sexuality and yet they are still considered sinners by the men in their lives. It does not seem to matter to Torvald and Manders why the women lied; reason does not matter, only following the rules of society (and religion).
Like Hester, neither woman feels she must repent for her perceived sin because she did nothing wrong according to her own personal moral code. Both A Doll’s House and Ghosts revolves around comparing society’s moral code with Nora and Helene’s personal code. Torvald and Pastor Manders represent society’s moral code because both care more about what society thinks than what they personally believe: It’s all about appearances.
Both women like to keep up appearances. Nora, being the faithful wife and not going against her husbands wishes pretends and lies to protect herself. Helene also wants to protect herself by keeping the public opinion of her late husband positive and not letting her son find out the truth.
There is also a similarity between Paster Manders and Torvald. Both men also like to keep up appearances. both men thought heavy on duty. Torvald thought it was his duty to protect his wife and she thought it was her duty to
do as her husband said. Paster Manders thought that it was the duty of a mother to tell the truth to her child and also to not give in to the mutual attraction that they both shared. While nora left to fulfil her own dreams, Helene stayed because her dream was to be with her son.
The similarities I see between the two women are first they are mothers, second they do both lie to protect someone that they love. In both of their minds Nora and Helene are doing what they think is right despite the moral code society has. Both Torvald and Pastor Manders believe that the women have duties to either their father or their husbands and seem to constantly remind the women they speak to of this weather it be by the way they speak to them or by what they tell them exactly. I think that both women reconcile their ideas first Helene by telling her son the truth and staying with him and second Nora by telling Torvald how she feels and what she thinks followed by her leaving him.
Shelley,
I think you are being a little harsh on Nora. She was trying to save his life and the only way she could get the money was to borrow it. Since she knew Torvald would disapprove, she lied. I don’t think she was concerned with “appearances” because she mentions over and over how others, those not directly related to her, are not her concern.
I do agree with you about Helene though. She simply didn’t want others to know about her husband’s problems because of how society would look at her and her son. She would rather suffer in silence than let anyone (even a close friend like Pastor Manders) know the truth until events force her hand. I fully believe she would have continued to keep her secrets if Manders hadn’t convinced her otherwise.
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